A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Haven't been able to find a definite answer to this. When a capacitor is placed across an AC supply although it draws current it doesn't dissipate power. So a specific example. If a 0.22uf capacitor has a reactance of approx 15k at 50hz then over a year (8760 hours) how many Kwh would a domestic meter clock up ? If it were a resistor it would average out at around 34Kw over the year at 240 Vac. What would the cap clock up ?

Does the meter type make a difference as the old mechanical ones with a rotating disc have been replaced with small electronic types ?

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

No, the domestic meters implement a true vectorial calculation, P=U*I*cosφ Of course, they are relatively crude electromagnetic devices, and the quadrature may deviate slightly, causing a "leak" of the reactive power into the active one. But the leak can work in either direction. If you connect a very large polypropylène capacitor to your mains, you will see some consumption though, because the wiring of your home will introduce a very slight resistive component, but for "normal" values ,like suppression capacitors, this is negligible.

Except if they are paper type, as they have ~2% losses.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Thanks Elvee... So you are saying that apart from wiring resistive losses the meter would not record the current (power) that has flowed (because no "real" power has been generated). What about the newer all electronic meters which have the capability (but is it used ?) to record reactive power/power factor etc. So the 15k resistor would consume a real 34Kw over a year and cost say £5 a year.

So would the cap "cost" essentially £0.00 over a year ? (apart from miniscule power due to resistive losses).

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Thanks Elvee...

So you are saying that apart from wiring resistive losses the meter would not record the current (power) that has flowed (because no "real" power has been generated).

No, only active power is recorded

What about the newer all electronic meters which have the capability (but is it used ?) to record reactive power/power factor etc.

In the industry, reactive power is billed under the form of penalties when it exceeds a certain level. For domestic installation, there is at present no similar scheme.

So the 15k resistor would consume a real 34Kw over a year and cost say £5 a year.

So would the cap "cost" essentially £0.00 over a year ? (apart from miniscule power due to resistive losses

Yes, and also the dielectric losses: negligible for PP, medium for mylar, and high for paper.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Thanks... Reason for the question was actually to do with "watless droppers" vs small transformer for a particular circuit. A small transformer that gets hot obviously consumes real power and you are charged for it, the cap supplying the same circuit doesn't and from what I gather you don't get charged for it (although obviously the circuit it's powering consumes real power that is chargeable).

Not trying to make the meter run backwards... honest

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Look inside a mains voltage LED lamp bulb. You can see the series cap that "drops" the voltage down to a LED suitable voltage. They tell us on the label it is a 240Vac, 1W or 3W or whatever bulb.

It registers/consumes ~1W of Power.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Small transformers are a disaster from an energetic point of view: a typical 1 VA transformer can use 3 watt or more open circuit. (of course, you don't use them without a load, and you have to add copper losses).
From that perspective, capacitive droppers are much more effective, even when most of the quiescent power is dissipated in a zener.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

Small transformers are a disaster from an energetic point of view: a typical 1 VA transformer can use 3 watt or more open circuit. (of course, you don't use them without a load, and you have to add copper losses).
From that perspective, capacitive droppers are much more effective, even when most of the quiescent power is dissipated in a zener.

We have an "original" door bell transformer that was installed when the house was built in the 50's and it runs really hot... I should do something about that really. It's probably had around 2 hours in all that time actually supplying a ringing bell and going off the temperature of the thing I bet it draws 5 watts or more.

A pity a "you know what " wouldn't do to replace the transformer... that would deter the bell ringers lol.

A kilowatt-kilovars recording meter will record true power or reactive power on a time-share basis.

You must have wasted something like 2.5 Megawatt since that time.

You could have bought a nice, luxurious PSU for that price.....

A bit scary when you put it like that... nearly £400 at todays prices. Alkaline batteries (which the bell will take) and supposing they last 5 years at say £4.00 for four works out at what... around £50 to £60 even cheaper "Please knock"

Thanks Elvee

Your meter should only register real power. The current to the capacitor will be limited by the capacitor impedance at the 50 Hz power supply frequency. However capacitors have a residual series resistance (ESR). The current determined by the capacitor will flow through that resistance and dissipate as heat. That is real power and will be measured by the meter. Capacitor life is often determined by the heat generated by ESR. Low ESR means less heat, and more ripple current capability.

Your meter should only register real power. .................... The current determined by the capacitor will flow through that resistance and dissipate as heat. That is real power and will be measured by the meter. ................Low ESR means less heat, and more ripple current capability.

And it looks like low esr = low metered power.